Sunday, October 4, 2009

Some Thoughts On Marketing--From the Amazing Elizabeth Law of Egmont USA

One of the highlights of this years SCBWI National Conference was having the opportunity to hear Elizabeth Law of Egmont Books talk. (Yes, that's her giving us a glimpse of her glamorous, N.Y. publishing life!) She gave a number of breakout sessions, along with a keynote, and each time we were struck by how knowledgeable and candid she was. A real treat! As Vice President and Publisher of Egmont Books, she was certainly in a position to give us a wealth of information on the industry--which she did. She also said some things that are still reverberating around the blogosphere, which she will recap for us here.

Please join Mary and I in welcoming Elizabeth Law to Shrinking Violets, where she has graciously agreed to answer some questions for us. (My personal favorite? Her answer to the second question!)

SVP: You gave us all a tremendous gift at your workshop—granting us authors permission to contact our editors. It was also a huge call to action for a number of us. Were you surprised at how very many authors had such a hard time with this issue? Could you talk a little bit about this for our blog readers who didn’t get a chance to hear you at the conference?

I was really surprised at how many writers, including well-established authors, said they had trouble picking up the phone to call their editors. Even your question surprises me: “granting us authors permission to contact our editors.” Why do you feel you need permission? You and your editor both want to make your book a success, and you have every right to have your questions answered. It is much better to ask about what you need to know than to worry at home or to ask questions of people who won’t know the answer, like your well-intended friends. Truthfully, a lot of trouble can come out of people making up stories in their minds when they don’t pick up the phone or send an email. We’d much rather you just ask us. And it’s our job to have a strong working relationship with the writers we publish.

But I do appreciate the respect that your question shows, and that everyone seems to acknowledge that editors are busy. We certainly are, but who isn’t these days? You don’t want to call or email your editor every day, although sometimes, in the middle of a revision, or in the middle of making changes or working on jacket flap or whatever, a lot of small emails in quick succession is appropriate. But if you have questions about your release date, about your jacket flap, about a bookstore appearance, about an idea for the next book, or about a character, for example, you need to ask it! Here’s what I suggest. Call up your editor, or email him or her, and say “I’d love to set up a 15 minute call to go over some things” and then keep a list to go over on your call. Or keep a list of running questions and then send them in one email.

This is not just my opinion. Before Egmont, I worked at Simon & Schuster Books for Young Readers and Viking Children’s Books. Communication is always, always a positive.

SVP: Mary and I took great comfort when you said that in spite of all the promotional demands on an author, the writing is still the most important part of the equation. Do you have some words of comfort for any writers out there who are terrified or paralyzed by all these perceived marketing requirements?

Boy oh boy, do I! Just write your heart out. I promise you that’s what matters. I would much, much rather find a great, unusual, distinctive book by a phobic writer covered in oozing sores who lives in a closet than a decent but not amazingly original book by the world’s best promoter. I could sell the former a lot better, too.

We are all in this business because we love good books. And a lot of really good, really unusual books have been successful recently. Have you noticed? Savvy, The Hunger Games, and When You Reach Me all come to mind. And I hope some of Egmont’s books will join that list soon. Books like Candor by Pam Bachorz and the Candle Man books by Glenn Dakin.

Can it help if you are out there, blogging or tweeting or speaking about your book? Yes, it can. But nothing works as well as a good book itself. Because your editor, your publisher, your agent, your friends, gatekeepers, and other people who love good books will fall in love with it and start talking about it even if you don’t.

SVP: Do you feel that the internet and social media should be used in different ways for different kid lit genres? Is there a different promotional strategy for YA versus MG versus picture books?

Everything about online promotion is pretty unproven right now. Publishers and authors are trying all sorts of things and seeing what works. One thing that does seem to be working is free content, such as making a chapter or two of your book available online, or making a full download available of your book for one day. For the book Skullduggery Pleasant by Derek Landy, Harper made the audio book available for free on their website, but only in streaming format. That is, you have to play the audio book from the site. You can’t download it to your iPod. I think that’s a neat promotional idea.

I don’t know yet what is working best for picture books, but I’d love to find out. YA may be the easiest to promote online, since teen readers read blogs, are on social-networking sites, and there are no restrictions about capturing their information, as there is with children under 13 years of age.

With middle-grade titles it’s a bit harder, so far, to go to the reader directly. We have been targeting parent-friendly sites to get to the gatekeepers. We have a middle-grade novel on our spring list called The Invisible Order: Rise of the Darklings by Paul Crilley that I am in love with. And it’s always a bit of a challenge, unless one is spending lots and lots of money to position the books in stores and bring an author on tour, to find effective ways to blow the horn for a brand new writer and his book. (Also, he lives in South Africa. So “live” touring would be very expensive!)

SVP: You’ve had an impressive career in publishing—how would you say the promotional demands on authors have changed over the years?

Well, the investment of time an author has to put into promotion is probably about the same, but the ways of doing it have changed. We used to send authors on the road more, and we used to encourage them to go into every bookstore within a few hours’ drive of their house and sign books, do appearances, etc. Now we love it if they have a website, get to know bloggers and librarians online, etc.

I personally think it’s best to be an interesting person and not merely write about your own book all the time. When a Facebook “friend” continually sends me mail or wall posts about his or her book, I’ll admit I turn off pretty quickly. But if someone posts status updates about their children in school or the movies they’ve seen, for example, along with posts about their writing, then I am interested in following them. Authors who give thoughtful recommendations of others’ books, or who comment on writers’ LiveJournal blogs for example, are showing that they are interested in good books as a whole, and not just their own.

SVP: What are some of the most successful things you’ve seen authors do to promote their books?

That’s hard to answer. School visits are still very effective, and if you contact a lot of schools yourself about doing visits and are willing to commit a lot of days to visits it will help your sales. But we are just learning now how to build buzz for a book, how to get people talking about it, through online channels as well as through traditional gatekeepers. And will that buzz translate into sales? To be honest, we don’t know yet. But it sure can’t hurt. I called up Virginia Anagnos, who is Senior Vice President at Goodman Media and one of the most extraordinary children’s book publicists I know, and she said the same thing. We’re all throwing different things at the wall to see what sticks.

SVP: If you weren’t an editor, what would your ideal job be?

My fantasy job would be to perform in the musical review Forbidden Broadway. But I think I would also be a good teacher, as I love to lead groups, I love school, and I come from teachers on both sides of the family.

SVP: Do you consider yourself an introvert?

Are you kidding me? Richard Simmons is shyer than I am! But I know a lot of introverted editors and writers who are very talented and very successful. Being an extrovert is a personality trait, but I don’t consider it a factor that makes someone successful.

I’ll tell you something that I do believe strongly. My father, an economist, was such a gifted speaker that he received invitations to speak all over the world. I think that from years of watching him I took on some of his talent for public speaking. But I have seen time and time again that people who aren’t natural public speakers, or natural self-promoters, can become very good at it. Like anything else, public speaking, and self-promoting, are muscles that you can develop if you’re willing to put in the practice.

SVP: What author, living or dead, would you want to have dinner with and why?

Oh my God! Did you ever read E. L. Konigsburg’s A Proud Taste for Scarlet and Miniver? In that book, every English teacher who walks through the pearly gates immediately goes up to Shakespeare. And I can see why, there is so much we don’t know and want answered about both him and his writing. But because that’s such an obvious response, I will pick George Bernard Shaw. Here is why. I don’t like fiction for children that lectures at us, and yet I love Shaw’s plays, which are very entertaining but also quite didactic. How does he pull that off? I wonder about that all the time. I also know he would have a ton of great stories.

SVP: Explain why should writers watch Project Runway . . .

Actually, I think editors and illustrators especially should watch Project Runway, but basically everyone I have gotten to watch the show has become hooked on it. Editors can learn a lot from Tim Gunn, the mentor on the show. Tim can go right to the heart of a problem brilliantly, yet he does it with such complete respect for the person he’s critiquing that they accept, and learn from, whatever he has to say. I sit up close when he’s on the screen and soak in every word. And illustrators and designers seem to love watching the challenges on the show—it really gets you to think creatively about things, and that’s always a plus.

You’re going to hate this, but I think a lot of writers could learn from the occasionally painful early rounds of American Idol. That show was the first time I ever saw something on TV that reminded me of my job. Of course, most writers I work with are thoughtful, hardworking, and committed—and they respect that I know something. But I have been argued with, countless times, by writers who say “I know I have this book in me and I know it’s good. And all my friends have told me that, too.” When I first saw American Idol, I saw people who were, at best, ordinary singers who could not hear the feedback they were getting from the judges. They argued instead of listening. And I could relate to that experience. What could writers get out of seeing that? Watch the times when the panel actually gives focused, helpful feedback. See the singers who listen and use it vs. the ones who may be too nervous or too defensive. The ones who can take it in are the best off.

Finally, may I add how great I think your blog is? I’m so glad to have a place to send our writers to learn about self-promotion and to see that they are not alone with their fears and their questions. Thanks for all the good work you put into it, Robin and Mary.

(Wow, thank you Elizabeth! That is exactly what we hoped for this blog, back when we started it!)

Thank you SO MUCH, Elizabeth, for taking the time to talk with us. I know I speak for a lot of writers when I say how much we appreciate your generosity!


And Elizabeth Loupas is our winner from last week's contest! Elizabeth correctly guessed that Zoey and Scout were the names of Nina's cats. Elizabeth, email Mary and she will arrange for your copy of Theodore to be sent!


Anonymous said...

Wonderful post. Elizabeth always makes me laugh. And feel better about writing and the pub business!

Edith said...

Awesome interview! You guys rock!

Kim Harrington said...

Great interview!

Yat-Yee said...

Thanks for the interview, Robyn and Mary. And Elizabeth, I'd gladly come mop your floor if I lived in NY just o be with someone who is so cool, so generous.

Courtney Sheinmel said...

Elizabeth, you're the best! Loved reading this interview.

Chelsea said...

Great interview, Elizabeth! I especially loved what you said about watching the early rounds of American Idol. Once upon a time, I thought I never wanted to watch that show, because it was just about the judges being as mean as possible to some poor singers. But that was before I'd ever seen it, just the impression I'd gotten from the commercials. When I finally did see it--loved it, of course--I was like, "Whoa, it's like watching someone read the slush pile! Except it's not about my kind of art, so it's not depressing, just... relieving to watch."

Anonymous said...

Loved this interview! Thanks so much. :)

Jean Reidy said...

What a terrific and generous post! I'd love to know how the odds of a children's writer getting published compare to those of an American Idol contestant getting a record contract. Would be interesting to find out. Thanks Shrinking Violets and Elizabeth.

June Sobel said...

Now if we could only figure out how to make writing for children into a hit reality show...

Elizabeth Law said...

Thanks for all these nice comments. I was really glad to have a chance to talk about things I feel strongly about. If anyone would like to follow me on twitter, I'm "EgmontGal" and our great editorial assistant, Alison Weiss, is "EgmontUSA"

Mary Hershey said...


You are sure to have a new fan base after today! Thanks so much for this completely marvelous interview. Would you like to be the Patron Saint of Editors? Wow.

And, I'm now committing to watching Project Runway. Loved the parallels you've drawn about the American Idols not ::hearing:: their feedback. I've seen that. You're so right!

And, June! I think we do need our own Reality TV show!!!

Mary Hershey

Sherrie Petersen said...

What a great interview! I fell in love with Elizabeth Law when I heard her speak at SCBWI-LA and her personality absolutely shines through in this interview. I could absolutely see her as the Simon Cowell of the literary world. He's honest. And he's usually right :)

Anonymous said...

Loved this interview! Especially, as Mary says, the answer to question #2.

lindsayeland said...

Wonderful interview! I don't feel very confident in my self-promotion so I loved your comment that the basics of marketing is "writing an amazing book!"

Now I'm off to try and do just that!

Julie Reinhardt said...

Great interview! I especially liked that she assured us it's first and foremost about the writing. I would totally watch Children's Writer Idol: Project Novel.

Janet Lee Carey said...

Love the interview with Elizabeth! Cracked up about the poor author covered in sores. I pictured a hermit in a cave somewhere writing a book under a wavering torch. Yes! So good to hear Elizabeth say bottom line, "It's about the book."

Philip Nork said...

Great interview. Being a new author, and an introvert, I find myself disliking the promotion part of this "writing adventure." I am so glad to hear others feel the same, and that the real magic to this is a good book. I write to escape, and to let others do the same, so this is great news to me. Thanks!

kathleen duey said...

Great questions, great answers. I heard Elizabeth speak for the first time at SCBWI in LA 09 and was tickled, delighted, and informed then--and am now, with this. Thanks!! said...

OMG, What a wonderful blog! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I just had my debut YA novel accepted for pub (it won't be out until forever, i.e. 2011) and I have been searching the web for for aid and comfort... and meaningful discussions of the YA biz.

Two weeks in, I finally found it.
Just let me say this one more time:

Thank you for this wonderful and enriching blog!

Robin L said...

Very fun to see so very many new faces! Welcome to all of you!

Mary Hershey said...

Ditto from me! So glad to have some new violets in the hood.


Anonymous said...

Great interview. Elizabeth and Sherman really made the summer conference for me.


Anonymous said...

Often we forget the little guy, the SMB, in our discussions of the comings and goings of the Internet marketing industry. Sure there are times like this when a report surfaces talking about their issues and concerns but, for the most part, we like to talk about big brands and how they do the Internet marketing thing well or not so well.

Anonymous said...

Affiliate Marketing is a performance based sales technique used by companies to expand their reach into the internet at low costs. This commission based program allows affiliate marketers to place ads on their websites or other advertising efforts such as email distribution in exchange for payment of a small commission when a sale results.

L.L. Muir said...

You gotta love Elizabeth Law! No choice. She is our Tim Gunn!

And I'm so glad to have someone point out the similarities between our industry and American Idol. I've been feeling like a contestant for years!

Thanks Violets!

William said...

hey... Great work . I feel nice while i reading blog .You are doing well. Keep it up. We will also provide dial QuickBooks Customer Support to reach us call to 1-855-756-1077 for instant help.

webbesite said...

شركة اصلاح خزانات بالباحة
شركة عزل خزانات بالباحة
ارخص شركة تنظيف خزانات بالطائف
شركة تعقيم خزانات بالباحة

شركة تنظيف بالباحة
شركة تنظيف كنب بالبخار بالباحة

webbesite said...

webbesite said...

مكانك للخدمات المنزلية
شركة نقل عفش بالدمام
نقل عفش بالدمام
شركة نقل عفش بالخبر
نقل عفش بالخبر
شركة نقل عفش بالجبيل
نقل عفش بالجبيل

webbesite said...

ملاحق نجارة
تغطية خزانات المياه
اعمال الترميم والصيانة
مقاولات عامة

Marcus Steve said...

I'm here to let everyone know that there is a cure for HERPES, The doctors have succeeded in letting people living with Herpes know that there is no cure for Herpes and they have been enslaved to the antiviral and other supplementary Orthodox medicine just to help suppress the virus and not a cure. I got diagnose of herpes1 January this year 2021 and i did not believe in my doctor that no cure for herpes rather i went into research online and I was introduce to Dr PUMA a herbal healer by a blogger who also narrated Her story online on how she was cured of Herpes after using Dr PUMA Herbal Medicine. I got the herbal medicine from Dr PUMA and made use of it as I was instructed. I went to the clinic for a checkup after two weeks of using the herbal product. My result came out Negative and I was booked another appointment after 30 days to confirm my result and the test still showed Negative and I was given the green light that I am fully free from herpes. All thanks to God for using this Great herbalist to heal me. You can contact Dr PUMA in any over health problems like : HIV, DIABITIES, AUTIMS E.T.C no him email: or WhatsApp +2348050495479.